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Post by bulldog on Apr 12, 2010 18:24:55 GMT 12
Tony use to do a kit you could buy to convert your chevette to 12a back in the day.
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Post by pentti on Apr 12, 2010 20:59:37 GMT 12
Plenty of thoughts on the ultimate Chevette engine transplant ! There are certainly some very good high tech / high output engines to chose from - the 3SGE BEAMS engine is food for thought, would presumeably match up with my Supra g/box and S bellhousing ? 200bhp sounds like a good starting point, but what do you do to these computer driven motors to get more power ? Still way short of the power from S2000 and bet it doesnt rev to 9000 rpm !
I rather like my old skool sidesucker carbies too, suits the era of the car.
Probably cheaper in NZ to extract more power from 3SGE than C20XE, more local expertise available. Nice quad throttle body setups for XE in UK, but of course could do same thing here with 3SGE if your pockets are deep enough.
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Post by 77vette on Apr 12, 2010 21:19:35 GMT 12
well for around 10k you could have a brand new 12a race spec reving to 10k and making 250-280 flywheel horsepowers. Cheap to maintain aswel. Dont belive the lies about unobtainable/expensive parts.
i think its gota be the cheapest option if you want that kind of power
how much do s2000 engines cost? like over ten grand for a second hand engine with xx,000kms on it?
how many thousands would a rebuild cost? lol
3sge is cheaper but i bet it costs friggn heaaaps to get much more power out of it
what about one of those engines(celica/corolla??) like they use in the TRS cars? they make like 230hp or something dont they? im wonder how much they'd sell you one for lol
-oh can you use a 13b now? i used to watch ss2000 like 5 years ago when most of the fast cars were runing 12a pp
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Post by pentti on Apr 12, 2010 21:35:24 GMT 12
Mmm, having trouble loading image of 3SGE in my car. Try this  Thats better ! |
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Post by zep on Apr 13, 2010 9:23:46 GMT 12
Nice! Looks good in there!
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Post by dannyboy on Apr 13, 2010 14:10:17 GMT 12
no rotangs run in ss2000 this year, you can run them but you have to be quite heavy!!1180kg for a 13b and you have to run on DOTs  My F20C was 7k +gst for everything, done 18,000km so it was nearly ready for its 2nd service. after 1000km of racing the oil stil looks like new. I think those Beams engines go well, there was one in the Allteza at hamptons, he had spent a lot on it and it had a 6 speed sequential box behind it. |
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Post by 77vette on Apr 13, 2010 14:29:29 GMT 12
^ engine bay looks swish as no rotangs run in ss2000 this year, you can run them but you have to be quite heavy!!1180kg for a 13b and you have to run on DOTs My F20C was 7k +gst for everything, done 18,000km so it was nearly ready for its 2nd service. after 1000km of racing the oil stil looks like new. I think those Beams engines go well, there was one in the Allteza at hamptons, he had spent a lot on it and it had a 6 speed sequential box behind it. in that case just buy an s2000 engine! was the altezza one of the ex toyota nz/barry tomlinson cars? they spent millions on those. Made heaps more power than the sr20 primeras and the bmws in 2litre tourers/schedule S. Would drag off the team kiwi primeras down the straights even with the rwd weight handycap |
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Post by mikuni on Apr 13, 2010 20:00:40 GMT 12
My Chevette drags off one of those Pimeras though, no sh*t. There was an ex NZ Touring car Schedule S Primera at our last Taupo track day. It handled well but the engine was dissapointing, despite having some of the craziest sounding cams I've heard. Thing sounded like wacking a tin can with a sthingy.
That 3SGE engine bay looks fantastic. I'm pretty sure the fact that its uprighted with a W55 would allow you to run a BEAMS on exactly the same setup, but I can just double check with a couple of Toyota freaks for you if you want to head in that direction.
The same Toyota freaks have shown me many tuning pages on the BEAMS engine and honestly, it is more tunable than the Honda F20C for the average person. You can throw cams, pistons, better intake, headers and exhaust along with an aftermarket management system retaining the vvti and make HUGE numbers, think 180kw at the wheels, which is much more than any F20C's manage to get to the ground. There are many well documented tuning attempts that have actually detuned the F20C, in fact a well known tuner in the states had to return cams to many customers because they failed to make any gains. I'm not saying that they can't be tuned, just that you REALLY need to know your nuts regarding head flow to get that amazing engine going better because it is so on the edge already, where as the BEAMS engine is a much less strained unit that comes in an every day tourer that is designed to last many hundreds of thousands of K's.
Not trying to be fan boy there, they are both fantastic motors and if the car was engineless and you have 10k or so I would say Honda F20C all the way, but its setup for a 3S so to me the only option is BEAMS.
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Post by 77vette on Apr 13, 2010 22:03:39 GMT 12
[img src="[/img] ![]() "] My Chevette drags off one of those Pimeras though, no sh*t. There was an ex NZ Touring car Schedule S Primera at our last Taupo track day. It handled well but the engine was dissapointing, despite having some of the craziest sounding cams I've heard. Thing sounded like wacking a tin can with a sthingy. was it an ex team kiwi/earlier pitstop car? there was also this slow as yellow one that used to toot around at the back of the field with the fxgts and some wierdo in a v6 lantis lol edit: and peter van brugel had that that other primera aswel around 99ish... altho on power to wieght styles your car prob comes out on top by heaps lols i remember watching a 2 litre touring race down by the start of the hairpin at pukekohe. A pack of those things at full noise was crazy as. Like a swarm of bees they were my favourite thing to watch by soooooooo much. barry tomlinsons IS200(that he ran for a couple years before the got those signature class altezzas) sounded sooooo cool  haha check it out the lantis guy is lurking in the back of this shot. |
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Post by pentti on Apr 13, 2010 22:35:54 GMT 12
Lots of good comment being offered, thanks guys. Mikuni, I would be interested in confirmation from your toyota freaks about compatability of BEAMS to my *S->W* bellhousing / g.box setup. More as a possible future project rather than now. Realistically, need to keep my mind on the job, get suspension finished, get in more racing etc. And havent forgotten about the XE under the bench....and 3SGE doing just fine for now! One problem with the 3SGE which was apparent at Hampton is the poor oil draining from the head, which lead to oil flowing into catch bottle on those long right hand sweepers, then overflowing after 4 laps (!) onto exhaust - note blue smoke behind car in one of the photos. Since in FWD application the motor is slanted, there are no drainage from L side of cam box. Overflow tube currently is from left front cam cover lump ( not at back as seen in earlier photo - had problem there losing oil under acceleration !) Have drilled additional small drains on L side of cam box, but obviously not big enough. Just poured the oil back into motor and kept racing. First time have had that problem but car has never gone so fast around long R sweepers before ! Glad i dont have a Subaru - quite a few have died at Hampton apparently, due to oil starvation in R cylinders on sweepers! As Tony says, the faster you go, the quicker you arrive at your next problem ! Which occurred at end of day when oil smoke reappeared ( catch botlle not full , not overflowing ), smelled like gearbox oil now, Under car soaked in oil, thought it was g/box driveshaft seal , but turned out to be that L selector rod restrictor pin bolt at top of gearbox had loosened and eventually fell out, letting g/box oil to leak copiously out onto exhaust ! Just as well it was time to go home ! All fixed now though. Couple more photos of motor from different angles. Note faux VAUXHALL badging on cam cover - just to annoy and confuse the purists....... The cutter on the L cam wheel is for ignition system cleaverly devised by ( you guessed it ) - Tony Lynch using Subaru sensors and coil pack and LINK ignition only computer and ignitor. Fully progammable and works like a dream.   |
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Post by mikuni on Apr 14, 2010 12:06:31 GMT 12
Sounds like you know your stuff anyway. You want a dual-vvti engine from an Altezza, which comes in already uprighted position. They also make more power and are perhaps a little more durable. The earlier single-vvti engine is also a leaning engine. Heres a link to a guy who is using a schedule s engine (similar to those being discussed above) in his AE86. He has recently opted to go to BEAMS, however is only using the leaning single-vvti engine, as found in MR2's I believe. www.oldschool.co.nz/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14419&start=20He's doing a couple of interesting things with it, but its probably worth a watch anyway just to see how the build goes. It'll probably be slow going due to the fact Markku's still a student. I'm going to Hamptown downs on the 2nd of May, so I'll have to try and be wary of the oil issue. Not sure how best to get around that though, by the time you realise something is wrong its probably too late. I guess just making sure it has a full 4.5litres would be a good start! |
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Post by pentti on Apr 14, 2010 23:25:58 GMT 12
Thanks mikuni, had a look at the video and this young fella is going great. Will try to follow what happens when he gets the blacktop in. Have a soft spot for AE86's - I had a very nice AE86 Levin GTV a few years ago which was stolen and never seen again - it was then that I decided to start the Chevette project.
Yes it appears that redtop single vvti's were in the last of the Gen 3 MR2s. My motor is a Gen 2.
Really have to watch the oil with them, they are renowned to knocking out their big ends. I have an oil cooler and thermostat to install, must give it priority.
What are you driving ? Powered by what ?
You will really enjoy Hampton
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Post by mikuni on Apr 15, 2010 13:11:16 GMT 12
What are you driving ? Powered by what ? You will really enjoy Hampton Just a Chevette estate road car, powered by an XEV "ecotec", mainly because of their price and parts availability over the XE. I'm sure I will enjoy it, I'm really looking forward to it. I've done Taupo now a number of times (all just open trackdays) and enjoy the horsepower levelling characteristics of track 2, so anticipating as much of the National circuit at Hampton. |
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Post by pentti on Apr 15, 2010 21:01:24 GMT 12
The XEV ecotec motor was initially thought to have limited potential compared to the XE, but when XEs became so rare, they have been looked at again, as you do... You probably are already aware of QED in UK, but if not here is a delicious offering from them for XEVs. All costs of course, but good potential in these easy to find motors after all. files.qedmotorsport.co.uk/vauxhall_ecotec_pricelist.pdf And lets face it, any modern 2L is going to give you a lot of fun in a Chevette.! Look forward to meeting you at a track sometime. |
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Post by bulldog on Apr 17, 2010 8:41:58 GMT 12
I would have thought if you were going to run ss2000 or similar the best bang for buck would be a 2 litre turbo of some form. for example sr20det ir similar. Surely with the fact these things make 200 odd bhp out of the box and you can wind up the boost and do little bits to protect the engine? Thoughts? I would have thought 300 bhp from one of those would be the easiest power yet.
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