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Post by zep on Apr 7, 2010 9:53:05 GMT 12
I've thought about this a lot, and remember talking to Jas about it at the OS nats before last, but how hard would it be to do something like this in a Gemini or Chevette:  The front suspension is pretty much the same! |
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Post by crazytim on Apr 7, 2010 15:43:37 GMT 12
Go and talk to Troy... he was saying something about doing this sort of nutse due to nothing being easily available...
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Post by crazytim on Apr 7, 2010 18:55:40 GMT 12
spoke to him, went into clean and water blast up front x member for chevini so I can paint and put back in car before he picks it up... Anyway he wants to make whole tubular steel bolt in replacement top and bottom arms for gemini suspension incorporating coil overs. Problem is he has limited time to start a prototype as he needs to work on stuff that pays... if you are serious about it I know I'd go for at least 1 or 2 sets so maybe if others are also keen we could pay him to start?! He has a cefiro in his shop at the mo that has similar after market tubular suspension components... he wants to make gemini equivalents. Reckon he could sell a tonne of them to the ozgemini boes... Me, I'm just excited about getting Chevini sussed out finally~!  |
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Post by mikuni on Apr 7, 2010 21:05:57 GMT 12
Sounds like the best way around it. Could proove expensive though. I think the issue with the standard T-car setup is that the shock goes onto the top arm. This would need to be modified by modifying the standard crossmember to take a very small shock and coilover setup where the upper arm attaches, and having the lower pivot point on the bottom arm, just in front of the sway bar mount.
It sounds simple enough but I'd say the fabricator would really need to know their business to get the geometery correct so that it will operate in the full range of motion. Obviously if its for road and track it will need to go from quite high, to very low and incorporate a range of spring rates and damper settings.
Whether this needs tubular arms to be made up is a matter of contention, but it sounds as though he knows what he's talking about and this would certainly make the conversion a lot easier, but also a lot more expensive than modifying originals to work, or even retaining original mounting points if at all possible.
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Post by gordo on Apr 7, 2010 22:01:17 GMT 12
It's been done overseas with a coilover replacing the damper with a re-inforced top mount - for a hillclimb car, IIRC.   |
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Post by crazytim on Apr 9, 2010 11:16:39 GMT 12
will look for pics I took of the MGB that got built in my barn, had a coil over kit for the front that went from lower to upper arm, very small shock/spring as Brad mentioned...
Then you could flatten out the boobies (shock towers)
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Post by burntrubber on Apr 9, 2010 14:03:00 GMT 12
Me and Jase up here have looked at this in some depth and I dont think a setup like that VW is the way to do it. The chassis on the Gemini is to wide and not really enough room from the engine bay/chassis rails to where even a -offset wheel would be to fit a double wishbone coilover setup in. The pics Gordo provided is the way to do it I reckon fabrication would be simular aswell I reckon.
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Post by 77vette on Apr 9, 2010 19:20:15 GMT 12
would be heaps of room if you put the engine in the boot...
count me in if you do a group buy deal timi
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Post by crazytim on Apr 9, 2010 19:44:24 GMT 12
The way he wants to do it would replace whole front x member, would be quite a labor and mind f*ck in general to have all the geometry set up 100%... this is where chopping and changing prototype would have to happen...
He also wants to do a similar set up for the rear... the starlet he has in his shop has a coil over set up going in the rear.
I will speak more with him about this, if there are a few peeps keen to pay a deposit to make it worth his while starting on the prototype he may well start sooner... just like every one of us on this forum he has to earn a living and will likely take years to get round to it anyway if we don't hurry him along.
I think first of all I need to get it 100% right what he is proposing, as I readily admit to being a complete noob half the stuff he was saying didnt make complete sense to me and I just nodded and smiled... what I've mentioned is the basic idea above... maybe if he can get something down on paper design wise that we can peruse and ponder and possibly improve...
I will get him to check this thread out and comment himself, he doesn't currently have a computer as he was robbed before xmas but will be at my place picking up chevini either tomorrow or wednesday.
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Post by gordo on Apr 9, 2010 20:43:26 GMT 12
The way he wants to do it would replace whole front x member, would be quite a labor and mind f*ck in general to have all the geometry set up 100%... this is where chopping and changing prototype would have to happen... He also wants to do a similar set up for the rear... the starlet he has in his shop has a coil over set up going in the rear. I will speak more with him about this, if there are a few peeps keen to pay a deposit to make it worth his while starting on the prototype he may well start sooner... just like every one of us on this forum he has to earn a living and will likely take years to get round to it anyway if we don't hurry him along. I think first of all I need to get it 100% right what he is proposing, as I readily admit to being a complete noob half the stuff he was saying didnt make complete sense to me and I just nodded and smiled... what I've mentioned is the basic idea above... maybe if he can get something down on paper design wise that we can peruse and ponder and possibly improve... I will get him to check this thread out and comment himself, he doesn't currently have a computer as he was robbed before xmas but will be at my place picking up chevini either tomorrow or wednesday. May be worth my having a talk to him? geometry will be a bugger - different ride heights will have to be catrered for - or just add some adjust ment and aim for the fast road rather than cruise alignments. |
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Post by gordo on Apr 9, 2010 20:46:59 GMT 12
I DO like the way that thing is going - very reminiscent of a Tipolino altered from the sixties!  |
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Post by burntrubber on Apr 9, 2010 21:48:23 GMT 12
Adjustable for the rear would be easy as there's a kit for Commadores which could be adapted to a Chevete/Gemini seen as their almost the same in that area. What I've looked at is the Commadore kit which is just an adjustable spring in place of the stock spring with the stock shock setup. To run coilovers in the rear the shock towers and mounts on the diff would need to be reinforced as there is no way it would fit in the stock spring location . It would work no worries though I reckon, guys do to it oldschool Toyotas all the time. The front is an issue because of the small amount of room between the wheel and the control arm pivot point I have seen on a Jap website years ago the same thing in the pics above with shock towers reinforced and the coilover mounted up there that setup had a tower brace also which is mean I reckon.
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Post by zep on Apr 12, 2010 9:57:50 GMT 12
Yeah, I can see the ease of doing it the macperson strut way but really, I don't think there is much more room in that pic above between the two arms than there is in a gemini!
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Post by mcqunt on Apr 12, 2010 10:39:33 GMT 12
i would be looking at similar to that vw setup if it were me,
except i would use a stock modified front lower arm
with a short qa1 coilover,
and a modified top mount on the x member with a tubular top arm
to adjust camber castor etc
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Post by zep on Apr 12, 2010 11:28:42 GMT 12
It seems relatively simple, eh. I wonder why it hasn't been done much in Germany /etc
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