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Post by mikuni on Feb 1, 2010 16:17:21 GMT 12
I've noticed some of the guys overseas are beginning to put Saab Turbo engines into FWD Opels and Vauxhalls, like Astras or Vectras. They basically bolt straight into these cars and just need an aftermarket ecu to get them running well, because they run quite a complex setup from the factory. I've noticed these engines at pikc-a-part etc and they look tidy and solid. They are just based on the GM Family 2 engine, so it would be as easy to drop in as my ecotec was, but if you fancy the Turbo route you can have up around 200hp or so, straight out of the box. More or less depending on what engine, they are even available up to 2.3L. Worth a look if you ask me.  Easiest source would be a 1994-1998 Saab 900. I can't help anymore with how tricky it would be to do the conversion, but just putting it out there as a suggestion. |
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Post by gordo on Feb 2, 2010 20:58:16 GMT 12
I've noticed some of the guys overseas are beginning to put Saab Turbo engines into FWD Opels and Vauxhalls, like Astras or Vectras. They basically bolt straight into these cars and just need an aftermarket ecu to get them running well, because they run quite a complex setup from the factory. I've noticed these engines at pikc-a-part etc and they look tidy and solid. They are just based on the GM Family 2 engine, so it would be as easy to drop in as my ecotec was, but if you fancy the Turbo route you can have up around 200hp or so, straight out of the box. More or less depending on what engine, they are even available up to 2.3L. Worth a look if you ask me. Easiest source would be a 1994-1998 Saab 900. I can't help anymore with how tricky it would be to do the conversion, but just putting it out there as a suggestion. Yeah, a few of the MIG guys have done them - the turbo's are a very strong engine and a relatively easy 450-500 hp is supposedly on with a bigger turbo and mapping. |
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Post by zep on Feb 3, 2010 10:11:46 GMT 12
Sounds good man! I'll have a little research  |
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Post by yoeddynz on Feb 4, 2010 7:04:00 GMT 12
hiya. I just so happen to have the first few months worth of practical performance car magazines series on putting a saab turbo engine into a mk 2 escort.  good reading too. I kept just these and not the whole mags as they were the most interesting bits. I think they do indeed share the same bell housing bolt pattern as the red tops and omega ecotecs! :-) container arrives next week. I'll get around to scanning article some point. Great engines- very strong and nicely put together. |
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Post by zep on Feb 4, 2010 9:41:41 GMT 12
Sounds excellent!
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Post by mikuni on Feb 4, 2010 10:20:01 GMT 12
Sh*t, this might be about to get out of hand. I know of a low pressure turbo setup at Tauranga pick-a-part. Not sure if its still there but if it is I was thinking it would be quite cool to drop into my Vectra daily for a laugh and also to see how well everything fits up. I might look a little more into how hard it is to piss around with the ecu and go from there.
How much are motors from pick-a-part in unknown condition? $300 or more?
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Post by yoeddynz on Feb 4, 2010 10:23:22 GMT 12
the saab engines are a crate of beer in the UK.... dammit!
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Post by mikuni on Feb 4, 2010 10:43:16 GMT 12
haha everythings so cheap over there! and yet the whinging poms always manage to find something to whinge about I just looked up the price list at pick-a-part and the whole engine would be $306 but it appears as though the Saab has gone anyway, or at least is no longer listed. Its probably for the best. The shove needs money first ;-D |
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Post by zep on Feb 4, 2010 10:55:17 GMT 12
I could see this as a potential engine for the coupe at a later date. When I can get around to it they'll be cheap as chips, and if they are as similar to the Ecotec as you say then, Barry White yes.
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Post by yoeddynz on Feb 4, 2010 11:39:24 GMT 12
there is a place on the left as you head in towards nelson on sh6 that has 3 saabs out front. mainly earlier ones- 900s wg=hich are a different engine - but they might have others stashed away. I might stop and ask next time im heading that way.
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Post by mikuni on Feb 4, 2010 12:21:13 GMT 12
there is a place on the left as you head in towards nelson on sh6 that has 3 saabs out front. mainly earlier ones- 900s wg=hich are a different engine - but they might have others stashed away. I might stop and ask next time im heading that way. That'd be a good idea. The earlier ugly looking 900's that are generally (or only) available in 2 door form do use an earlier engine, which I don't think is Opel Family 2 based. But the cars with the right motor are still called 900's as far as I'm aware. They were produced between 1994 and 1998. The name then changed to 9-3 but the model stayed the same for another year before the next chassis was realised - this time based on the Opel Vectra B (as opposed to the earlier A chassis), which still uses the Family 2 engine architecture. Even the Saab 9-3 Blitzen that uses a 2.3 and makes about 220hp+ is based around the same model so it would be cool to get hold of one of those to run good horsepower on an unstrained, standard motor. |
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Post by crazytim on Feb 4, 2010 17:01:37 GMT 12
there is a place on the left as you head in towards nelson on sh6 that has 3 saabs out front. mainly earlier ones- 900s wg=hich are a different engine - but they might have others stashed away. I might stop and ask next time im heading that way. That'd be a good idea. The earlier ugly looking 900's that are generally (or only) available in 2 door form do use an earlier engine, which I don't think is Opel Family 2 based. But the cars with the right motor are still called 900's as far as I'm aware. They were produced between 1994 and 1998. The name then changed to 9-3 but the model stayed the same for another year before the next chassis was realised - this time based on the Opel Vectra B (as opposed to the earlier A chassis), which still uses the Family 2 engine architecture. Even the Saab 9-3 Blitzen that uses a 2.3 and makes about 220hp+ is based around the same model so it would be cool to get hold of one of those to run good horsepower on an unstrained, standard motor. I'm fairly sure they are Saab 9000's... same body as Lancia Thema and Alfa Romeo (insert model here... can't remember...) So in theory maybe these engines would also fit easily... not sure what donk's they are sporting, just throwing it out there! |
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Post by cul8r on Feb 4, 2010 17:22:27 GMT 12
Oh gay!
I owned a Saab 9000 Turbo - 2.3 turbo and manual! Put it in a 50 lapper, was running just shy of the top five! Pulled extremely smoothley and nice power delivery, indecently quick, with the tires I was running it was topping out at 120kph in 2nd on the limiter about 20 metres out of the dirt oval corners!
Snapped a cambelt with 5 laps to go!
I know where theres a Saab Turbo 900 or is it 9000 (Coupe) sitting, manual...
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Post by mikuni on Feb 4, 2010 18:52:08 GMT 12
Cambelt? The plot thickens.. I thought they were camchain?
Also, I had mistaken what the deal was. The 2L and the 2.3L are not Family 2 engines as far as I know. They seem to have been around since the 80's, in the chassis that was infact shared with the Lancia and Alfa models, as Tim so correctly pointed out above.
I think this is the reason you can't use the early engines. In 1994 Saab switched to a new model 900, which used a chassis that is shared with the Vectra A. At this time I believe they modified the engine mounts to fit the earlier 4 cylinder motors into the GM chassis and this is why the engine is interchangable with the Vectra engines. I'm not sure about the bellhousings but the GM boxes do fit so I'm assuming Saab also modified the bellhousing bolt pattern on these post '94 motor also - another reason the earlier motors will not work.
One thing that confused me is that Saab did use Opels 2.5 and 3L V6 engines and this lead me to the assumption that the 4 cylinder versions were based on Opel variants aswell.
The 4 cylinder motor uses a cam chain and the Opel family 2 engines also went to cam chain somewhere around 1999. I don't know if these engines share any similarities to Saabs early cam chain engines though.
Ok, so thats heaps of reading but I'm slowly getting there. I just want to outline the fact that - at this stage I don't think you can - use the engines from the earlier models, despite the fact that they appear to be identical. Just keep that in mind. In saying that, if you can find a RWD box that will also bolt up to the earlier motors then you're away laughing anyway, because thats the only real advantage of going with these for me, they bolt straight up to the VN Getrag gearbox that is relatively easy to find here in NZ.
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Post by yoeddynz on Feb 4, 2010 21:01:47 GMT 12
the earlier 900 used a different 'slant' engine that is mount north/south- with a funky chain drive off the front of crank down to a jack shaft heading back to gearbox. my brother had a 900 S which was a lovely 16 valve non turbo. very very very strong engines still loosely based on a triumph slant four from dolomite. We had one when we last visited NZ- it was single cam version. pulled ok but quite thirsty. Changing clutch is a c--t!
Then your right- in about 94 when GM properly took over they continued making the 900 but it is a uglier shape (my opinion) and engine is tranverse. thats when they went family 2 I think.
I think the difference between low pressure and high pressure turbos is something little and simple- turbos and engine remaining the same.
And guys over in europe are getting silly HP out of them- keeping the cars standard looking and really Barry Whiteing off the porsche etc boys.
..which makes me smile.
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good reading too. I kept just these and not the whole mags as they were the most interesting bits. I think they do indeed share the same bell housing bolt pattern as the red tops and omega ecotecs! :-) container arrives next week. I'll get around to scanning article some point. Great engines- very strong and nicely put together. 
